• Lots of big claims Roy, but not much in the way of facts or examples. Can we take the conversation off another way? I, and a whole bunch of others, feel like the whole "I can mock anything, anytime, anywhere" thing is either harmful or not really that important in the greater scheme of things (my stance btw). You might be walking uphill trying to argue the Type interception aspect of TypeMock as a deciding factor.

    That being said, what other reasons might I choose TypeMock over RhinoMocks? RhinoMocks is free, and there's a huge amount of literature, community, and blogging examples of its usage. I've seriously never seen an example of TypeMock usage on a blog. Not one single blog post.

    Personally, the only thing that's going to sell me on TypeMock over (FOSS) RhinoMocks is if you can show me that the syntax is easier to read and write.

    I'm not really trying to argue with you so much as see exactly why you think TypeMock has an advantage over RhinoMocks. Sell me on the usability of TypeMock.

  • @Jeremy
    You are right, the free version of TypeMock does not have the same quality of syntax as Rhino. The versions you pay for have cool features but the price per desk seems to me to be prohibitive for a mocking framework.

  • Your blogs are just becoming a glorified advert for Typemocks.

    If you are turning this into a us vs Rhino then remember that Rhino mocks beats you on the 2 major factors - it comes at an attractive price and has great community support.

  • I do hope that Roy represents the new voice of TypeMock, this is a more reasonable position than we've seen in the past; TypeMock has been as dogmatic as any of us in this storm in a teacup. As I've said to Roy elsewhere, my issue (in case anyone cares) is not the tool but the position the authors have historically taken.

    Personally, I'd like to feel that the people at TypeMock understand the trade-offs in their position, and that they're doing their bit to lead people on to the "good stuff". TypeMock has powerful features that can make a team more Agile--or help them paint themselves into a corner and give up in disgust.

    I've been on a couple of gigs where I had to clean up complicated, brittle tests that were just dragging the team down. One of the worst problems was endless multi-level mocking to get around the fact that they weren't breaking up the code. The ability to override classes meant that they hadn't been thinking about object roles and responsibilities, just slicing through the code to get through this ****ing test. Often they'd have been better off writing integration tests instead. (I've also seen some pretty unproductive Scrum adoptions too, so maybe the metaphor applies after all :-)

  • Lucy :
    I'm writing my thoughts and concerns about what I do on my blog. I just so happen to be inside a testing tool that is quite contravercial for many people, which leads me to many thoughts which sometimes challenge assumptions.
    Since unit testing is what I do, and I work on a unit testing tool, it is natural that i open up the state for conversation about what the pros and cons are for such a thing, and what it means for our industry.
    I'm trying to stay fair and balanced by bringing in opposing views to what you call "adverts" inside the posts, there by creating a real discussion.

    for what it's worth, I'd probably take the time to write the same things if I wasn't starting to work there, and was working full time with it.

    Guess what? I'll also be using this blog to post help videos on Typemock, so people can learn its strength and basic usage. If someone else did that, would it be adverts, or just help to the community? Does it matter as long as someone learns something?

  • @Casey
    "mocking the unmockable is a big benefit for certain legacy systems"

    True but equally mocking something when I feel the current design is more than adequate is also a case.

  • at the beginning - during my evaluation of typemock - i was excited about the same things. i was sure that this tool finally teaches lazy coders to write unit tests. but i dont think that way anymore. you have to explain to people why unit testing matters and be sure they understood. there is no way to avoid unit testing consciously once you know what you are getting. typemock is nice but its definitelly not worth its price comparing with alternatives. i would buy it for 50 bucks because of few of its nifty features but not for the price that it is offered now. sorry

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