Are you a comedian? Have to read about this in your resume.
Well I am one of those guys coming out from college and I can tell you that not even on 7 figures I would join a mediocre company like microsoft.
Bye
Nuno: Ws standards and others were not necessarily created by MS. Gogle could have been part of it, or any other one of the large companies out there (BEA, SUN..) that are doing "Architecture astronomy"
From the looks of it, I don't think MS would love to have you either, BTW, so no worries.
Thanks for the reality check. Joel could have as easily written an article about all the baskets Michael Jordan missed during his career.
Maybe, just maybe, Joel can figure out how to get his FogBugz product to delete related cases (a feature that people have been *begging* for for YEARS now!). Also, hopefully, he can hire someone that can figure out how to update his application without restarting the whole web server!
How he got "famous" hawking a mediocre product like FogBugz is beyond me.
I'd attribute a lot of what you raise to researchers, obviously the big companies have put the man power in to create the product but a lot of what is being done before/now/future has been around for years and years. A quick search on something like ACM or IEEE would yield many papers on supposed "new" solutions.
Granted that *some* of these researchers are funded by the big companies though.
Joel really "went for it", i mean "working on hopeless and useless architecture astronomy" really?? that's what he thinks of MSFT and GOOG? Aren't these the two companies that have shaped the internet and desktop app's to become what they are today? aren't these companies somewhat responsible for all of us having jobs? (in my case that's obvious...)
Nuno: you're a douche, if MSFT offered you an internship where YOU had pay then you should take it and maybe learn a thing or two.
"not even on 7 figures"
whatever... I guess your parents are paying for your Harvard education as well?
Joel is very elitist in his attitude, because he was a project manager for Excel many many years ago, he thinks he knows everything.
You've really missed the hole point of his article...
Joel has no problem with unsuccessful projects, nor with MS's great success stories.
All he's saying, with his usual funny as hell sarcasm, is that the hole sync shebang is - again - getting out of hand...
And whilst you can agree and disagree about that, his bigger problem is that like in the beginning of the big hi-tech bang, big companies pay big money to small children, which is not good for the industry, not good for the companies and especially not good for these children.
Funny thing. I've just clicked on the link you labeled "How do you support X millions of transactions per minute?" and get the following response:
Sorry, we were unable to service your request at this time. Please try again later.
(Code: c26353c3-f292, 5/2/2008 12:36 PM)
You should all proof-read your blogs and comments before posting! From this page alone:
gogole
Gogle
your wrong
your selling
exaggeratig
the hole point
...
Even if Joe might be a bit harsh I think you place a little too much belief in the 2 big ones. Yes, both MS and Google have contributed to the world of computing and networking, but saying things like: 'When was the last *important* thing you've built that didn't rely on some knowledge that came out of one of those two huge companies?' I think you ar egiving them a bit too much credit. Most things they are very good at were started elsewhere (and is still done elsewhere) and there's tons of existing tech outside them (RoR, django, all from apache foundation, sun).
Having said that,I just must answer Nuno Job (let's feed the trolls!;-), you clearly haven't much clue. unit testing is an excellent tool. formal methods are all very nice, but cost a lot in time and money, for spaceshuttles, cars and aeroplanes yes, pleae use them but for everyday application development? slight overkill.
Yes I do have a clue Fredrik. How can you assume that without knowing me or my work? That is plain stupid.
The reason I (re)acted like a jerk is the fact that the guy that posted this article is a jerk himself and can't relax, read joel article and have fun with it. Instead he's a microsoft grupie so he must whine and whine against all that comes in ms way.
You're spot on Roy. I read Joel's post and it seemed like he was bitter about MSFT and Google luring away the brighter devs with more money and brand name.
He put out an article a few years where he said he paid a high starting salary (75K) to new grads to attract them, apart from the environment. If it takes more money nowadays to get the best talent, then he needs to cough it up.
Personally, I don't get the appeal of product companies. You work on a small module that is part of the entire product, never get to see the entire picture, and spend a large amount of your time doing bug fixes, and building on top a stable framework. The opportunity to learn new technology is minimal. This was my experience at least.
I much prefer project-based work, where you get to work on a variety of apps and domains.
I agree.. I was surprised when I read Joel's post. It seemed to be a marketing stunt to get more people to work for him (or to keep them working for him) and it seemed to go against what he said in the past. Keep in mind, his analogy of "architectural astronauts" is very true... Indeed after reading about it, I am seeing them all over the place!